The Fictitious Pickup Boom: How Fake Drivers Steal Freight with Jillian Kossman

Joe Lynch: [00:00:00] Hello, friends. Welcome to the Logistics of Logistics. My name is Joe Lynch. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today’s topic is the fictitious pickup boom, how fake drivers steal freight, with my friend Jillian Cosman. How’s it going, Jillian?

Jillian Kossman: It’s great. How are you?

Joe Lynch: Doing great. Doing great. So Jillian, please introduce yourself and your company and where you’re calling from today

Jillian Kossman: Sure. My name is Gillian Cosman. I’m the chief operating officer at IDScan.net, which is an [00:00:30] identity verification technology company based in New Orleans, Louisiana

Joe Lynch: And what do you guys do? What problem do you solve for your customers?

Jillian Kossman: At the end of the day, we are focused on catching fake IDs to stop fraud. And as you can imagine, there is a lot of that in the logistics and transportation sectors, so we are laser-focused on stopping fictitious pickups that involve the use of a fake ID

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and before we hit the record button, you said to me there’s a, this problem’s getting worse because of the [00:01:00] non-domicile non-domiciled CDL drivers. Please talk about that problem and what’s going on

Jillian Kossman: Sure. So there’s a few reasons why this problem is getting worse. One is the economy. When the economy does bad fraud increases. But I’m sure everyone in the logistics space knows that a lot of drivers who are driving under non-dom CDLs have lost their legitimate non-dom CDLs because of the new federal regulations.

And we’re seeing chatter on the dark web. Those drivers are not gonna stop driving. They’re not gonna [00:01:30] give up those good incomes. They’re now turning to fraudulent IDs, purchasing those, and then going and reapplying to become a driver using a fake or synthetic identity. Fake IDs are a booming business in trucking.

Joe Lynch: Oh God it, for a while it was just g- go back a few years, we had opportunistic theft, cargo theft, where somebody’s walking by and say, “Hey, I wonder if that’s got Xboxes in it. Let’s c- pry it open. Oh, it’s got sheet metal. Who cares,” right? Now it is [00:02:00] very organized, that cargo theft, and I thought that was a physical thing.

But what we’ve learned over time is that if you don’t have cybersecurity, you don’t have cargo security. So this went quickly from a opportunistic thing where it’s just make sure you put a lock on there. Make sure you back your truck up against a building,” stuff like that, to they’re stealing the truckload because they showed up with a fake ID or a fake authority or [00:02:30] fake something.

We’ll talk more about that in a minute.

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, I I actually was started rewatching The Sopranos the other day, and in episode two they, they commit cargo theft. Y- but very traditional sense, guns blazing, get out of the trailer, we’re stealing these Italian suits in there. And I was like, gosh, we’re 20 years

Joe Lynch: Oh, I love that

Jillian Kossman: much still a thing.

But now it is much more insidious and sophisticated and, you may not know that the truck is missing until two weeks later. There’s just a lot of coordination that’s [00:03:00] going into it. Less guns, so that’s good for everyone, but more theft, so that’s bad for everyone

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and am I right to say that if I bring a gun and I go and it’s kind of that highway robbery where I say, “Get out of the truck,” like we saw in that Sopranos episode. Somebody got shot in that case. But that, we look in the, at that, and we prosecute that as the crime that it is. When I steal it, when I s- when I use a wrong authority or a wrong ID, and I go and I steal that by [00:03:30] taking it to a warehouse it didn’t belong going to, we don’t treat it the same.

We’re not we’re… We need some changes to the law because that is still theft. There’s people losing money, and we try to treat it like it’s… white collar crime’s always been that way. You steal 30 bucks from a party store, and you go to jail for 30 years. You steal 30 million from a, a corporation, and it’s like he didn’t mean it.

We’ll get him out in months.”

Jillian Kossman: right. We think of cargo theft like, if you’ve got masks [00:04:00] and guns, it’s bad and the police are after them. But if you presented a fake ID and just drove off with a truckload of, food or alcohol or something, there’s almost this perception in the public of like the, that’s the shipper’s fault.

They didn’t vet this person properly. It, there’s definitely a different lens depending on how the theft happens. And criminals are taking advantage of that, right? They know that it’s not well tracked

Joe Lynch: they’re migrating to the crimes that don’t carry the same punishment. And also big payouts[00:04:30]

Jillian Kossman: Totally. Yeah. So it, it is interesting and I think there’s some promising l- federal legislation around this, which will hopefully lead to better tracking and better coordination, but we’re still a long way off

Joe Lynch: So who are your c- I should also say, I know you guys work in a whole lot of different industries, but today we’re only gonna talk about transportation and logistics. Who do you work with in like transportation, logistics, supply chain? Who are your customers?

Jillian Kossman: So we work with everyone from the brands themselves. I won’t name drop specific names, but major [00:05:00] alcohol companies, energy drink companies, clothing companies, electronics companies that you have heard of that are publicly listed who control their own warehouses. And then we also work with probably of the top 20 shippers in the country, probably 15 of them are our

Joe Lynch: Oh,

Jillian Kossman: And they, and then we also work with 3PL companies who digitally verify their drivers in advance. So we work across the entire transportation supply chain industry at various points to secure and verify their drivers in different ways.[00:05:30]

Joe Lynch: Yep. We will, I’m I’m making a note. I wanna ask you about Sammy Hagar and Guy Fieri later on in this, because I think that’s a perfect example of how you can be robbed, and it’s not something that captures the imagination unless you’re a rock star and a celebrity chef. This is a big problem.

And again, I think right now, Jillian, if you and I were transported to a big shipper and they said, “Go select us carriers or the right carriers that we should [00:06:00] be working with, or the right 3PLs,” cybersecurity would be right at the top of the list. And when I say cybersecurity, also cargo theft and freight fraud, and just security in general, which is just there’s so many attack vectors, and we’ve gotta get this right.

And I think you guys are starting really at a foundational level. Is the guy who showed up who

he says he is?

Jillian Kossman: It’s very basic. Our technology’s pretty advanced, but at a [00:06:30] basic level, you’re right. Is this driver who they say they are? And that’s important ’cause the driver, ultimately you can vet the carrier there’s a lot of things you can do, but if the driver is a fraudster, you’re screwed no matter what kind of vetting you did on the carrier

Joe Lynch: Yeah. What’s the, what’s that company that’ll p- fix the cracked windshield? They c- they come to your house. Safelite. I noticed, I had that Safelite come to my house a few years ago, and I got a… They sent me a picture and said, “Bob Smith is coming to your house,” and I got a picture [00:07:00] of him. And I was like, “Oh, okay. That’s pretty cool. We can do that. ID scan can help us with that.” And that’s what we should be doing

Jillian Kossman: Definitely. Yeah, I think drivers are the foundation here and we wanna make sure that we know, everyone knows who they are and cargo stays safe

Joe Lynch: Yep. We will come back and talk about this more in a minute. But first, tell us a little bit about you, Jillian. Where’d you grow up? Where’d you go to school? Give us some career highlights before you joined the mothership, IDScan.net.[00:07:30]

Jillian Kossman: Sure. So I grew up between Southern California and Minnesota. Big Vikings fan, but definitely a SoCal girl. I’ve lived in New Orleans for about 15 years, and I’ll probably stay here. Between three coasts. I went to University of California, Santa Cruz, where I got a degree in Latin American literature, so maybe not exactly the most traditional path for technology or logistics.

Joe Lynch: You’d be surprised where everybody comes from, ’cause it’s not usually a supply chain degree.

Jillian Kossman: I know. I’ve, So there’s been a lot of learning for me [00:08:00] over the past two years as we’ve just been accelerating really rapidly in this space, so that’s been a lot of fun. I have been in B2B tech for most of my career, and prior to IDscan.net, I was in travel and loyalty tech. I was in fintech, and then most recently I was in cybersecurity.

So what attracted me to IDscan.net was it’s like cybersecurity for the real world. So many companies are investing so heavily in their cybersecurity stack, protecting their endpoints and MDMs [00:08:30] and two-factor authentication and all these, you know, NOC and SOC dashboards to check for cyber fraud.

But then their IRL, their physical locations, they’re just like, “Here you go. Here’s the cargo.” “Bye, Tom.” No security whatsoever.

Joe Lynch: I think for so long we didn’t have it wasn’t top of mind. It was just like, oh, and by the way, we also worked with the same people. We’ve automated a lot of things. So in the past I said, “Oh, I work with Jillian. She’s [00:09:00] my dispatcher. She’s sending Tom today. Usually Bob’s coming, but we kn- we like Tom just the same.” And it’s like, “Hey, Tom. How’s it going?” We got a little casual with some of that. And now as we’ve started using technology, maybe I’m not getting Bob or Tom. I’m not talking to Jillian on the phone. Somebody’s assigning that truck, and I don’t know them potentially, and that, that leads to some, some difficult situations.

And the casual nature of it that we [00:09:30] had for a long time just doesn’t work anymore

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, and criminals also, they find industries that maybe are a little bit lower tech, trust-based industries like this. And then to them that’s, a payday, that they can exploit that. So we we call ourselves, or I call us we’re like cybersecurity for the real world, right?

We’re implementing technology to make sure that your, threat vectors, your IRL threat vectors are still safe

Joe Lynch: Yep. Do you know Danielle Spinelli, Fraud Girl?

Jillian Kossman: Yes, I [00:10:00] was on her podcast maybe six weeks ago.

Joe Lynch: So I don’t know if it was, I was on her show not so long ago. She was on here not so long ago too. And I don’t even know if I said this on the podcast. We ended up talking longer off the podcast than on the podcast. And I had just gone to like Google Gemini and say, please list all the attack vectors for freight theft.

And man, it just went [00:10:30] on and on. But then it said, hey, if you’re going to go on Danielle’s show, say this. And it gave me this little comment that I should say. But in essence, it said, if you don’t have cybersecurity, you don’t have cargo security. And I thought we never thought that way in the past. We had the physical world and we had the digital world. And what you guys are is where [00:11:00] those meet, right?

Jillian Kossman: Yeah

Joe Lynch: Until the order is all very digital, until somebody sends a driver and all of a sudden you’re moving from digital to the real world. And if you screw up, stuff goes missing.

Jillian Kossman: It’s very interesting. There’s just, there’s so much technology available now for the industry to protect end to end, and yet criminals still somehow find some way to weasel in there and exploit something. It’s a constant [00:11:30] game of Whac-A-Mole, but we can see in real time, shippers getting much more sophisticated on how they use technology to protect themselves

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and I think, my audience is gonna be, of course, the logistics providers and the tech people, and then there’s gonna be shippers. I think if you’re a, a 3PL, the whole idea of losing a, a load or multiple loads, that is m- potentially losing the customer with it. Um, and if you’re run

If you’re the [00:12:00] supply chain manager or the the shipping manager, big brand, it just seems inconceivable that you could go, “Oh it happens to everybody.” Sorry, sorry those And I think that most of the real high-value stuff have already moved this way. If you’re shipping drugs, I’m pretty sure you’ve been locked down for a minute. If you’re s- moving electronics, you’ve probably been locked down for a minute. But all sorts of stuff is being stolen. I was just talking to a buddy of mine about [00:12:30] this, and he said, “Oh, you can buy a pallet of linens on eBay.” I go, “That’s stolen.”

Jillian Kossman: Yep.

Joe Lynch: He goes, “How do you know?” I go where else are you gonna buy a pallet of linens?”

And I go why are you even looking? You got n- You’re not like you’re entertaining us with linen.”

Jillian Kossman: No, I will shop on Poshmark or eBay or something, and I’ll see, athletic clothes, and they’ll be, say they have a variety of sizes, never worn, brand new. And in my mind now, because we [00:13:00] recently had a 3PL come to us, they had lost a shipment of athletic wear, and the customer was saying, “W- we’re gonna quit if you don’t make this right and put something in place this doesn’t happen again.”

And now I’m like, I’m online shopping, and I’m like, “I wonder how they got access to every single size of these sports bras.” I’m like, prob- pr- probably the same guys who robbed our customer.

Joe Lynch: Yeah. Danielle said it to me. She goes, I- she goes, “I have friends who are like, ‘Oh, I got a Fendi purse on, it was, I don’t think it was [00:13:30] Poshmark. eBay? One of those. And sh- and Danielle goes, “It’s not a knockoff. It’s probably stolen.” And she goes, “What I do all day is try and solve that problem that you’re helping the bad guys get away with it.”

But anyway, we hit record, we had five topics that we wanted to talk about today. So I will set them up, and then you describe the problem and talk about the solution, if you don’t mind. The first point is [00:14:00] stopping the f- these, I love this. The fake driver, real freight scam before the truck leaves the lot.

How do you stop that? So I got, I’ve got real freight, and that’s the problem. As I got real freight and a fake driver, how do I catch that?

Jillian Kossman: So I think, it starts with at least if you’re us, it starts with driver verification. I think, a common misconception is that you can’t… it’s harder or it’s difficult to get a fake CDL. It’s not. So like I have one just sitting here on my desk. This is actually a [00:14:30] picture of-

Joe Lynch: oh my God. That’s … You’re holding one up.

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, this is actually, like this is a fake one we ordered online.

This is one of our engineers. He’s not n- named Jack Stark.

Joe Lynch: Oh, so you got, so you guys have the red team, blue team thing going on, huh?

Jillian Kossman: We do. We’re always ordering from the fake manufacturers, ’cause these are very sophisticated.

Joe Lynch: real to me

Jillian Kossman: s- you can see it’s got the window pane, it’s got the spiral feature it’s got a little hologram over the face. There is absolutely no way that you would catch this visually. It looks near perfect.

You have to examine [00:15:00] it at a pixel level to look for anomalies. Th- that forms the crux of what we do, is analyzing this document forensically. If you think about if somebody found an old copy of the Declaration of Independence what types of examination someone would do to authenticate that document, we’re applying that in real time to every single ID presented by a driver.

And so that forms the basis of basic driver verification. Make sure they’re using a legitimate credential. Then on top of that, we can also query a bunch of external [00:15:30] databases like the DMV. We are about to be integrated with CDLIS. We’ll be the first identity verification provider to have that integration, so that will check status of the CDL to make sure that, Jack Stark actually has a legitimate CDL from New York.

Joe Lynch: Jack Stark’s the fake license

Jillian Kossman: Yes, exactly. We always use super fake names so that if they, fall into the wrong hands they don’t trigger anything

Joe Lynch: This goes back a ways, but it reminds me when we used to have fake IDs, and it was like we would go and just make [00:16:00] change like, a nine to an eight or whatever we were doing, and it worked. And now I now that I saw the bouncers they have a scan, and they just take that scan over the I- I don’t have to use fake ID.

I have white hair. So among other things, and you can’t get away with that anymore. They’ve been in enough trouble

Jillian Kossman: The, they still try. When we look at kind of the different fake IDs that we see in logistics, probably about 25 to [00:16:30] 30% are the tampering you described. Somebody used a Sharpie to change a number or they, glued a new face over the ID and are trying to pres- they’re bold, right? Putting a different face on the ID, handing it to the guard.

That’s still 30% of the fakes we see

Joe Lynch: And if the guard doesn’t have a tool, and he just he’s sitting there and he’s looked at 50 already today, and he looks and goes, “Looks good. Thanks, Jack.” And your fake Jack Stark goes and gets your very real freight

Jillian Kossman: It, it happens all the time, and [00:17:00] we’ve got that kind of low-tech tamper IDs. The best way to catch those is checking the data on here in the barcode against the front. If you manipulate a number here, you’re not gonna be able to have manipulated it in the barcode. And then the remainder are fake IDs ordered on the dark web.

Those almost all come from Hong Kong. No matter if you’re a kid trying to underage drink or you’re a fraudster, you’re getting the fake IDs likely from the same manufacturers. And then people also use stolen, [00:17:30] borrowed, they’ll use their brother’s expired ID and try and talk their way into getting access to the shipment that way.

So there’s there’s a lot of different types of illegitimate IDs that are presented and our software is meant to flag those. Flag things like non-DOM CDLs just so they can have a higher level of scrutiny at the gate

Joe Lynch: Yeah, I just remember that I have two daughters, and I remember w- my older daughter goes, “Oh, yeah, I don’t have my, I don’t have my license right now. Kelly has it.” I go, [00:18:00] “Why she have it?” “Oh, she just needed it for something.” I go, “Why would she need your license?” And she goes, “I don’t know.” I go, ‘Cause she’s not 21?”

And she’s like, “Oh, yeah, I don’t know what she’s using it for.” I was like, “Yes, you do, and so do I,” I’m like, “Get it back.”

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, people will find licenses on the ground or, people often, like 2 or 3% of IDs presented to our customers are expired, and a lot of them are long expired. So an expired ID that they find on the ground or they [00:18:30] get from a friend, th- they’ll try and pick up cargo with that. And in many cases, especially if, the logistics company is relying on visual identification, there’s a bunch of different dates on the license they’ll release cargo to someone who ha- is not presenting a legitimate credential or is presenting someone else’s old, expired credential

Joe Lynch: So you’re not taking a chance on the old security guard at the gate being the most up-to-date on all this stuff. Taking that out of his hands saying, “We’re [00:19:00] giving you a tool, and you should be able to scan this and get the barcode, use the infrared, and determine if this is a problem.” Um, the other issue, and it’s closely related to this, is it’s this bottleneck that we have at our yard when I have a guard who’s…

and again, this is people who are trying to do the job right, but they don’t have a tool, so they’re writing stuff down. I s- I suspect they’re also taking pictures of this stuff and putting it in their systems. But taking a… I could take a picture of that, the [00:19:30] license you held up for the fake Jack Stark, and now I got a picture.

Good for you. I got a picture of a fake ID, and the, the c- the $100,000 worth of cargo is long gone. So there’s a bottleneck that these people create when they don’t have the tool. How are you solving that for these guys? And what, by the way, what is the manual process they’re using, and then what are you guys doing to replace it?

Jillian Kossman: A lot of our, a lot of our customers, and even big logistics companies that [00:20:00] you would think have sophisticated technology in place, they are still writing the, the BOL manually. They are walking out of the, gate and writing down the license plate manually. Our technology will take a, picture the license plate and just add it to the record.

It will sync all this data to the BOL. So it actually saves a lot of time even for legitimate drivers because you don’t have to enter anything. You just, add a f- couple fields and the record’s created. Also in automotive, in the automotive industry, so car [00:20:30] dealerships, maybe about two years ago, they passed a law basically saying “You cannot just take photocopies of a license and keep them in a folder somewhere.

That’s not secure. That’s not a proper way to handle people’s PII.” And I know a lot

Joe Lynch: Wait, what is a PII?

Jillian Kossman: personal identifiable information, so your name, your driver’s license number. That can’t, that shouldn’t just be on a piece of paper, on a desk somewhere.

Joe Lynch: Yeah, somebody else could steal it for other

Jillian Kossman: Exactly.

Joe Lynch: So it needs to be secure

Jillian Kossman: So I think we, I [00:21:00] would not be shocked if similar legislation comes down for shipping, and truck drivers are also very privacy conscious.

They don’t want a picture of their license floating out there. So this software takes the photo and puts it into a secure cloud with admin credentials. You can’t just, pull it up and pull this data from a piece of paper. And then I think most importantly, if there is a theft incident, all of the information is timestamped.

The picture of the truck, the picture of the ID, all the information is ready to go in a [00:21:30] package that can be sent to law enforcement without having to rifle through a bunch of papers and figure out who did what and at what time. So just it makes the intake flow a lot faster and a lot more accurate

Joe Lynch: Yeah, I can imagine like y- you’re being conscientious. You and your team, they get together and say to all the guards, all the guys in the dock, “Hey, cargo theft’s a big thing, cybersecurity. We’re gonna start doing it right. We’re gonna start taking pictures.” Usually th- using your mar- mobile phone probably, right?

[00:22:00] So not exactly the best system. And then it could create this big jam up at the gate. That’s the n- that’s what the, this, this bottleneck at the gate. I’m doing it ’cause I’m being conscientious, but I’m also wasting someone’s time. And by the way, you c- as a driver, you might say, “Hey, I gotta get, I gotta get loaded or unloaded,” and you’re taking additional time.

We are already wasting enough of the driver’s time at pickup and delivery locations

Jillian Kossman: And it makes it go [00:22:30] faster for legitimate drivers. If your ID is fine, it’s gonna be scanned boop, put in a couple of fields, and then you’re on your way. And the other thing that’s nice too is if an ID is suspicious or fraudulent, it can alert corporate security or your fraud team in an automated way so the gate guard doesn’t have to, search for the number and pick up the phone, and let me call Ted, and the driver’s sitting around.

It just creates a little bit more seamless of a process for both good or [00:23:00] suspicious drivers

Joe Lynch: yeah, you end up with business rules around this technology. And I’m gonna read this right verbatim here. It says, “GuardShack or self-service kiosk scan driver credentials in under 15 seconds, automatically populating 100% accurate driver data, name, CDL, all that.” 15 seconds as opposed to somebody who is, with a clipboard saying, “Okay, hang on, Julian, I gotta write your name down.” And I look at his sloppy dr- sloppy handwriting, [00:23:30] and it’s on a clipboard somewhere. It’s not digital. It’s not secure, nor is the picture. And I’m not really if that Jack Stark gave me that image, that fake one, it could pass, and I could still jam you up at the gate for 10 minutes. So then this next one, and this is knowing who’s actually behind the wheel and stop the double brokering of freight.

So how is this leading to double brokering, this,

Jillian Kossman: Well, double brokering is it’s interesting. A good amount of double broking, [00:24:00] brokering does involve fake IDs ’cause people wanna obscure their identity when they set up these fake businesses or take over fake businesses. But double brokering can be hard to stop because it uses a legitimate, innocent driver who thinks they’ve been hired for a gig to go pick up cargo, but they’re doing so on behalf of a criminal.

So in a lot of double brokering cases, the driver is presenting their legitimate ID, and they are not in the know that this is gonna be a fraud case. So I think [00:24:30] while there’s not a fake ID to be detected in that scenario, the fact that we’ve got a timestamped image of the truck, of the ID, of the individual who picked it up is gonna make the eventual investigation much easier, even if we aren’t able to catch all double brokering right at the point of pickup

Joe Lynch: Yeah. You know what would be, and I think we’re probably pretty close to this, if I can say, “Hey, I, I gave this to ABC carrier, and now I, [00:25:00] they sent somebody, and that guy doesn’t seem to work for ABC Carrier. He works for somebody else. Maybe he’s an owner/operator.” And again, he’s, he thinks he’s legit. It’s just if the shipper said, “No, I didn’t say you could pass it on to somebody else. Our agreement was you were gonna use one of your company drivers.” The own- And so the driver that’s gonna pick it up, maybe it’s Tom Smith, and now your fake Jack Stark shows up

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, I, I w- at TAPA [00:25:30] last year, I think someone was talking about double brokering, and they said the single best thing you can do is ask the driver ‘Who hired you? Where are you taking the cargo?’ ‘When did you get this job?'” And if they can’t answer that stuff super confidently, if they don’t have a history of working with that shipper, that’s a red flag

Joe Lynch: Yes. Yes. It’s, I think, a- and correct me if I go astray here. I’ll try and stay in the shallow end. If, let’s just say I own a trucking company and I’ve got three trucks, and I’m friends with you, [00:26:00] and I say, “Hey, Gillian, I can’t pick this up. Can you pick this up and deliver it?” I’m, that might be completely m- we might have goodness in our heart on this one. You’re gonna help me out, and I’m gonna make 200 bucks. I’m gonna pay you the other 1,800 or whatever, and you deliver it. And that, that could happen, and no one calls the police ’cause the freight got delivered. But the shipper was at great risk in that transaction, and s- probably so was the [00:26:30] carrier. Am I all right to say that?

Jillian Kossman: I think so. I think any time there is an unusual pickup that merits additional scrutiny

Joe Lynch: Yeah, the shippers, the shipper said I vetted Joe. I didn’t vet Jillian, and she might be perfectly fine, but I wanna make sure. And if she’s under-insured, and that’s why Joe got the business and she didn’t, or she’s got a whole bunch of dings against her credentials,” that’s a challenge

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, I think something [00:27:00] really interesting that happens with companies that implement our software is they start catching fake IDs of guys they know who are good drivers, who have no intent to commit cargo theft who are driving under a fake ID, typically because they do not have a valid immigration status.

So they purchase a fake identity, and they drive under that, or they’re avoiding child support or alimony, or they’re a felon. But they have no intention of stealing cargo. They’ve been a good [00:27:30] driver for 10 years. Suddenly, the logistics company implements our software, and they’re like, “What the heck?

John’s using a fake ID. He’s been dri- he’s a great driver. He’s been driving for us for years.” And so that’s an unin- potentially an in- unintended, unfortunate effect. But there are, cases of double brokering and cases of driving under fake IDs that are not at risk for cargo theft, but you really can’t take your chances there.

Shippers need to be very careful

Joe Lynch: Right. So maybe I’ll try and wedge this in at this point [00:28:00] is, so Sammy Hagar, the rock star, aging rock star I’ll call him at this point, and Guy Fieri from Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, I think. And he’s o- own- he’s owns a lot of restaurants around the country. I think mostly in California. So they started a tequila company.

They didn’t want to, but they’re celebrities, they had to. So they started a tequila company together.

Jillian Kossman: It’s mandatory. If you’re a celebrity for too long and you don’t start a tequila company, they kick you out.

Joe Lynch: no choice. So they had, I [00:28:30] think, over a million dollars worth of tequila stolen, and I think, I don’t You would know probably better than I, but this was where a driver came, picked it up, delivered it to where they were told to deliver it, and that where they delivered it was n- not the right place.

So it was basically s- that was, let’s just say, the thieves warehouse is where. So that was picked up and moved again by the thieves. And no guns a-blazing. Somebody just I think they call it [00:29:00] spoofing the driver. Talk about that problem and how you guys might have solved that.

Jillian Kossman: I think I, I’ve heard of this specific case, and I cannot remember if the fraud originated by the use of a fake ID or if it was more of a unwitting legitimate driver who was then like, “Oh, we changed the warehouse location. Drive it here.” And

Joe Lynch: Yeah, I don’t remember either

Jillian Kossman: if it was, if a fake ID was used, we could have absolutely stopped that at the source.

If the route was, if the cargo was rerouted on route that’s a little bit harder, and that’s why

Joe Lynch: a little out- [00:29:30] that’s outside your bandwidth

Jillian Kossman: outside of our wheelhouse. That’s why there’s, that’s why there’s many pieces of technology that this industry has access to and that, they’re implementing because there are s- so many threat factors.

You do need multiple tech layers to ensure you’re fully covered. And just, as we said, like vetting, extra care when, you’re working with a double broker scenario that you’re not familiar with, extra care when vetting a new carrier

Joe Lynch: Yep. [00:30:00] Well, we have a lot of freight brokers, 25,000 freight brokers

Jillian Kossman: Oh, really? That’s all, that, that’s more than I would’ve expected.

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and I think if you look, I’m looking at my notes here the top 1,000 have 80% of the volume and the top 100 have two-thirds of the market. So we’re seeing a lot of consolidation, and I think what’s gonna– what we’re gonna find out here is that the investments in technology, including AI, and this kind of investment, [00:30:30] which the big guys are absolutely, positively doing, are going to become table stakes.

We keep saying table stakes, where it’s like a TMS became table stakes, then visibility s-solutions became table stakes. This is becoming table stakes for the big players, and it’s just– it makes sense. And I don’t think, I’m sure there’s an investment, but this is also saving you time and improving the process, and I don’t know how you say we’re not going to make that investment, but we’re still world-class.”

No, [00:31:00] you aren’t.

Jillian Kossman: I do think so too. I think also with just the new emphasis at a federal level around, both let’s better track and prevent cargo theft and also, two, let’s make sure the roads are safe with a little bit higher standard for CDLs, that technology like this is going to become part of your basic tech stack.

3PLs or, freight brokers work with us in a little bit different [00:31:30] way. Best in class freight brokers, those top 100 you talked about, they are typically doing remote driver verification. So they’re not verifying the driver at the lot ’cause they don’t have a lot. They are sending an SMS, and the driver’s uploading an image of their ID.

They’re running checks on it and giving a thumbs

Joe Lynch: like it

Jillian Kossman: Bob’s good to go.” And then that information becomes available to the companies they work with so that everybody’s in the know that this, this individual’s been vetted. So there’s a few different [00:32:00] ways that we work in the industry and freight brokers typically use that remote flow

Joe Lynch: Yeah. People have said on my podcast, and I didn’t push back ’cause I don’t actually know, they said, when I say double brokering, they go that’s, that’s why people don’t wanna use freight brokers.” I don’t know if freight brokers are more likely to have the double brokering or not, but I think the very best ones, the top ones, are going probably are, have already made the investments or are making the investments to ensure that they are not [00:32:30] going to get that hung around their neck.

Because I think 20, 30% of freight is, goes through a broker, 70%, we’ll call it, goes directly to carriers. If at some point you say yeah, the, the freight brokers are causing some of this cargo theft,” there’ll be- people are gonna be less likely to use them, and that that’s a shame. You don’t wanna lose, you don’t wanna lose the game because you didn’t make the right investment

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, and I think, [00:33:00] I, 25,000 freight brokers is a lot and I think, one problem I hear about that we’re trying to figure out how we can help is these smaller freight brokers, people w- organized criminals will approach these smaller brokers, say, “I wanna buy your business.”

Or the smaller broker will let their website domain expire and the fraudsters buy it and then impersonate that broker. So they’re imperson- impersonating legitimate freight brokers to then do their evil deeds.

Joe Lynch: [00:33:30] They are also even buying– So since some carriers aren’t– I’m sorry, s-some shippers say we’re not gonna work with the new authority, anyone with the new authority.” So they’re buying established authorities, companies that have been moving freight successfully, legally, correctly for many years. They buy those companies, and then they’ll move freight for months and kinda set up and then the day where they’re moving, I don’t know, drugs, electronic I don’t– I’m [00:34:00] always assuming drugs and electronics have a higher bar. I don’t necessarily know that’s always true. But then they’re stealing like 50 loads at one time or, 20 loads, and I’m– I guarantee the, the original founder of that carrier probably carried the note and didn’t get paid on his stuff.

They did, and the thieves are off with a whole bunch of And your reputation’s obviously ruined

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, and I think, like you were saying earlier, there’s different perceptions of h- how cargo theft operates, and we’re still [00:34:30] in the mindset of guns blazing. This is not some c- con man who decided, “I’m gonna get a fake ID and steal a load of electronics.” No, this is organized crime.

This is cartel- cartels still some mobbed-up scenarios. These are very… There’s a lot of foreign organized crime that runs this. They are organized. They can buy the sh- buy the 3PL company, run it legitimately for two years, and then do a coordinated 18, truckload attack at once.

And it’s kinda funny ’cause I’m [00:35:00] like you’re running a legitimate business here. Maybe you should’ve just stuck with that. You’d probably have less risk and make more money.” But they will, be a sleeper agent for a very long time before they actually commit this, and it’s, it’s very sophisticated.

They’re crossing the border immediately in a coordinated way. It’s not just lone wolves

Joe Lynch: Yeah. I think what I’ve learned, and I think I might have learned it from our friend Danielle, is that we have, we’ve always had opportunistic, [00:35:30] um, cargo theft. And that’s, “Hey, that truck’s o- out in the middle of nowhere. Let’s pry it open and let’s see what’s in there.” And now we have this orchestrated, sophisticated, as you said, run by organized crime, cartels involved. And that, somebody told me when I was at Long Beach at the conference, IANA conference last year, somebody said they’re identifying freight that came somewhere in California, that’s the main attack vector, your old stomping grounds. And they said they’re [00:36:00] saying, “Yeah, we know when that went in that truck, and we’re gonna follow that driver for three hours.

And as soon as he gets out to g- have lunch, we’re gonna steal it.” And th- that’s like a job.

That’s like, am I gonna drive three hours? I’m like, dang, might as well get a real job. But they’re also stealing stuff that they know to be high value, and they followed that because they know it’s high value.

Jillian Kossman: That’s also a misconception I had at the beginning. I thought, drugs and electronics, but [00:36:30] it’s like they’re stealing Doritos, we just signed a company that makes

Joe Lynch: We, anything you would sell at a party store is

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, like we just- We have a company that is a major manufacturer of cheese and, and it’s a problem for them.

They will steal like anything. And if they can’t ship it overseas with X boxes or something it’s getting loaded on at the port, it’s gone. But they’ll bring food and, athletic wear to open air markets. There’s a big one in, I think, Queens that’s a v- really big problem with a lot of stolen goods.

They [00:37:00] will steal literally anything.

Joe Lynch: Oh yeah, I’ve seen I’ve seen people set up like in New York City, and I’m sure it’s not just New York City, but this is the one I saw on TV. And this guy was, looks like a homeless guy, and he opens up a suitcase and there’s Scope and toothpaste and toothbrushes. He’s selling everything, and it looks like, “Hey, where’d you get all that?”

And there’s… So somebody might have stolen a truckload, and then they show up to this homeless guy, go, “Hey, give me 50 bucks for this. It’s worth 400 when you sell [00:37:30] it.” And I’ve s- when you mentioned Sopranos, I’m sure if you see there’s that one episode where they were selling, they got coolers in the summertime, and they said, “Hey, go sell these coolers.” And They basically give it to people living on the streets, “Sell these coolers for 20 bucks a piece, and you owe me this much money when you sell them.” And they’re stolen

Jillian Kossman: It’s almost like they’re double brokering the, the they’re double brokering the stolen goods after they steal them

Joe Lynch: Yeah. Well, and you can see if you’re one of the bad guys, you go, “Hey, [00:38:00] why am I robbing a party store and taking a chance that party store owner has a gun or some do-gooder shows up?” Much easier to go steal from a truck that has a 53 foots 53 f- feet of of goods and no one there to protect it. Next thing I wanna talk to you about is replacing paper logs with, again, a better solution, like an ironclad proof of when something goes missing. [00:38:30] Talk about that.

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, but we, this has been a big area for us because this industry is more collaborative with law enforcement than other industries we work with. So we’ve re-engineered how our reports work to make it very simple that when there is an incident, one click and you download kind of the whole history of this person images of the ID, all the information, timestamp, if you captured a photo of the truck, if you captured a live photo of the driver at that [00:39:00] time.

It’s like a one, it’s like a little package for your law enforcement partner about the individual when the truck went missing. So that’s been very helpful. And then also, as I mentioned earlier, just improved security. We wanna make sure that, the legitimate driver’s information is secure and in an encrypted cloud, and that not every single person at the company has access to it.

We want legitimate drivers to feel safe and confident that their information is staying private. So keeping it out of paper logs is super [00:39:30] important as well.

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and th-this also can get into that CTPAT stuff where there’s audits. Somebody says, “Hey, we’re being audited by our customer,” or m-maybe in the, the government, and you go, “Oh, okay, yeah, we have some of that. Some of that’s in Jillian’s phone. She works nights over at the guard gate. So yeah, Jillian, can you text me over all those images you’ve taken of who picked it up?”

And then dealing with pieces of paper on a clipboard that might be put in a folder. Um, [00:40:00] none of that is going to be impressive to either your customers or the government when there’s an audit

Jillian Kossman: No, we never want anything in an individual’s phone. That’s the least secure place it can be. And everything in our system cascades up. So if your corporate security person is sitting in Virginia, but the cargo theft occurred in California, we still want them to have like real time access to the information.

So everything syncs to a central cloud where it can be viewed and where your admins have access to [00:40:30] it. So you don’t have to track down like who was on the guard, who’s got access to the paper, what system did they log each piece of information in. It’s more readily accessible from the secure cloud

Joe Lynch: Yeah, it’s, this is, it also reminds me that we have all these siloed systems, and I think what we’re seeing is all the silos are connecting because the big brands that we’re all supporting, the big manufacturers, distributors, they want flow. And they want flow [00:41:00] for their materials, but they also want flow for their technology solutions. And I always joke that they ask for flow, and we said, “Cool, we’ll give you a whole bunch of silos that don’t talk to each other.” But more and more, I don’t know if it’s already happening, but I guess it probably is that your system connects to the rest of the systems, and before long you go, “Yeah, all this is integrated.” So if I want to see what happened on July 1st 2025, I can figure that out

Jillian Kossman: Yes. That’s the next phase in [00:41:30] kind of our evolution, and I think the evolution of logistics tech is that information flows really seamlessly between these systems. So you know, a lot of our customers also use, Highway or Overhaul, and they send data, from our system into those platforms as well when it’s needed

Joe Lynch: Yeah. Yeah. The, the integration is where it’s all what we want because your solution becomes that much more valuable when you can pull stuff from upstream and downstream of your process

Jillian Kossman: Yep, you can connect the [00:42:00] whole story and that’s when it gets really interesting and then we can close all the gaps that the criminals are exploiting

Joe Lynch: Yeah. And I was w- before we hit the record button, I was just telling you I was in Poland for my niece’s wedding. And I hadn’t been to Europe since, I don’t know, three, four months ago I was there for another wedding. I went to Ireland. And what was crazy is how much they had improved in the technology. So when I walk up, normally you would have to [00:42:30] hand your passport a few places. I still did that, but a lot of times I just walked in front of the camera and they go, “Okay, Joe, you’re all set.” And I was like, I got my passport ready to hand to the guy. He knows who I am already. And you can see if we can do it for the, for customs and immigration, we’re gonna do the same for our stuff because the stakes are high.

Jillian Kossman: I, I think you’re right. I think it’s eventually trending that way. I think in general, like [00:43:00] everybody’s cool with borders and TSA having a record knowing your face. I think we’re still a little bit ways off from everyone feeling comfortable from private companies having your face on record. There’s also, there’s legislation in some states, like in Illinois, big no-no, can’t do anything with facial recognition without a 10-page consent form.

And other states have laws in progress that way. So I think we’re a ways off. But yes, if I had to predict, at some point in the future, your face will become [00:43:30] your ID, and you’ll just drive right up and, they’ll say, “Hey, Joe, you’re good to go.”

Joe Lynch: I’m not wild about the f- the, the government saying, “Hey, I saw Joe Lynch drive down I-94, and I got his… Here’s who was in his car,” unless consent to any of that. But I can see if I say, “Hey, look, I’m working at this company, and this is condition of employment.” Okay. I’m gonna… they’re paying me, and I also don’t believe there’s any real good reason that they would be using it for bad [00:44:00] reasons. What do I care? Some people are gonna

Jillian Kossman: I, it’ll be interesting. There’s so much v- explosion of facial recognition across all, private, public, law enforcement right now. So it’s gonna become very interesting how that starts to be used

Joe Lynch: Y- yeah. Yeah, exactly. The last point I wanna talk to you about is, so we know sometimes at some point we have blacklisted or unauthorized drivers, and they’re showing up at my facility. And so this is not just, “Hey, g- give me this.” Th- are [00:44:30] you able to identify and say, “Hey that’s Jack Stark, and we know Jack Stark is a fake”?

Jillian Kossman: Yes. Typically our customers during onboarding will have a- they already have a BOLO list. It may have images, it will have identities. We’ll upload that into the system their previously known bad guys are blocked. And then, it’ll be one click for an administrator to add a new bad guy.

And we- we’re also developing a feature that will allow you to flag the face so that if that bad guy gets a second [00:45:00] fake ID, shows up at another location, you’ll see, “Hey, that’s a face on a f- an ID I previously flagged.” And that ID will, have a pop-up and merit additional scrutiny. So that’s the next phase ’cause these folks aren’t just getting one fake CDL, they’re getting like 20 fake CDLs to

Joe Lynch: And that’s the … This is the problem with, okay, I took a picture on my phone and I work at night, and now this guy’s driving in during the day, or we took a picture and he’s on the [00:45:30] blacklist and I taped it to the, the guard shack. I experienced this many years ago. Doing a little tangent here, Jillian, but it’s a fun one. I hired a guy. W- I was working in automotive. I won’t mention the company. He was a contractor, and he said, “Oh I’ve been out of work for a while.” But he had he had a engineering degree and he was good attitude, and I remember But he was a little off sometimes, and I remember him saying I haven’t worked for a few years because I [00:46:00] had a bad back.” And I was like- Oh he’s 35 years old. I’m like, how bad a back can you have at 35, right? And mi- went missing, and so my boss is “Hey, where’s your guy?” I go, “I don’t know.” And he goes, “Did you call him?” I go, “I called him.” That was pre-cell phones. I c- I was calling him. He never answered the phone, and so we fired him. But anyway, he shows up like a week later. He went through the guard gate, and then I guess he overdosed and crashed his car into the [00:46:30] building, and so I had to go down there. Police came, ambulance came. They took him, and as we’re kinda going through this, in the guard shack is a picture of him saying, “Do not let this guy into the building.”

He’d been fired like a year ago. He’d been coming in for a month and the d- the dude was a, a drug addict. That’s why he was out of work a lot. And so every day he’s driving in, and there’s his picture right in the guard shack. So when they’re [00:47:00] saying you’re, you shouldn’t have hired him,” I’m like, “Dude, you got him most wanted list right here.”

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, and that, that also who- the guy grows a beard, he wears a

Joe Lynch: Right

Jillian Kossman: or you hire a new person at the guard shack and they don’t, deeply analyze the faces on the list. I think that’s a, being able to automate that so your system has your BOLO and it automatically pops up

Joe Lynch: What’s B- BOLO?

Jillian Kossman: Be on the lookout

Joe Lynch: Oh, I see. Using police language. I see how you [00:47:30] are

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, so I, it’s good to automate it, I think

Joe Lynch: And by the way, y- your company is potentially liable at that point when you say, “Hey, this guy was blacklisted.” “Was he bla- was that on your blacklist?” “Yes, he was.” “Why did he pick up freight?” “Because,” to your point, “he grew a beard. He had a hat on. It was dark when he picked it up

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, I know. It was dark. Not gonna stand up in court

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and this is something where you can say, “Yes.” By the way, I think this is all a [00:48:00] selling point too, um, to your customers and say, “Hey, look, this is how- that we value what we’re doing here.” And I don’t know what the investment is, but I guarantee the ROI is there.

Jillian Kossman: Just o- one shipload that’s saved, c- more than pays for our technology. So it’s a no-brainer. And the time savings, the data automation, the easy export, all is, improves it even if you’re not [00:48:30] catching fake IDs. But we actually, we had a, one, maybe a top 10 logistics company earlier this week.

They flagged a fake ID. They caught someone on the FBI’s most wanted list. Law enforcement likes this too because it, it’s flagging criminals that they’re looking for

Joe Lynch: Yeah, and I don’t wanna be too much of a drama queen over here, but still am convinced we’re gonna have a cyber 9/11 or s- a digital

Jillian Kossman: you said that last time we talked too,

Joe Lynch: yeah

and it… When that happens, you’re gonna, you’re gonna wake up the next day and go, “Why did we work with [00:49:00] so and we knew better. We k- ” Or, “We knew we should have done something, and we chose not to because everybody’s busy.

No- nobody has extra time.” Uh, it always reminds me, my executive coach said to me one time regarding social media, she goes, “Social media showed up and it’s like, ‘Hey Jillian, make sure you post every day.'” And you’re like, “Where’d I get that extra half an hour?”

Like, where did that come from? Same with this, but I do think, just what we talked about, this is going to [00:49:30] save you time at the gate, and it’s gonna do the work in a way that humans can’t

Jillian Kossman: Yep. And that’s what technology’s all about, just, I’m, I’m not, I- AI is great, but I think, like, when you pair tech and a real human, that’s where the magic happens. Our technology’s meant to help, the logistics industry make better decisions by verifying IDs and that’s what it’s all about

Joe Lynch: All right. I’m gonna wrap this bad boy up, and then I want your final thoughts on the topic. So I’m talking to my friend Jillian Cosman, and we’re talking about the fictitious [00:50:00] pickup boom, how fake drivers steal freight with Jillian Kaufman. Cosman, I’m sorry. So the first thing we talked about is fake driver, real freight. So they show up. They’re using a fake ID. You showed me one, Jack Stark. It looks completely real. If you don’t have a technology, you don’t necessarily catch that. It just looks good to me. The, the guard is not trained in a way that he’s… He doesn’t have the… You haven’t given him the tools [00:50:30] to catch that. And you guys have an automated solution to that takes 12 seconds, a whopping 12 seconds. So not only are you gonna catch the bad guys, they’re not just bad guys who are… don’t have the right ID. Next, there’s a bottleneck at these gates because people who are trying to do the right thing without a tool are now saying, “Give me your license.

I’m gonna write everything down. I’m gonna put it in my log. I’m gonna take a picture of it.” Whatever your [00:51:00] ragged system is, and I’ll call it ragged just because it doesn’t have the technology that you need to make it work. And again you’re sending hundreds of thousands of dollars out your door every day with drivers.

It should be right. Next is the whole double brokering thing. So knowing who’s actually behind the wheel and stopping double brokering before it gets out the door. Um, you guys can do that remote, uh, digital identity. That’s how you work with the freight [00:51:30] brokers and the 3PLs. So it’s… I think that’s a selling point.

Right now, if I was if I was in that business, I would say, “This is how we, this is how we roll.” I’m pretty sure if I look at those top 100, top 1,000 freight brokers, they’re doing it. And if you’re a smaller one and say we don’t have the money. We don’t wanna do that,” somebody’s got a sales pitch that you don’t have. And by the way, I will also say If you’re a big shipper, a [00:52:00] manufacturer, distributor, you’re spending somewhere between 5 and 10% of revenue on logistics. Yes, you care about the price, but you will pay a little extra to get it done right. A lot of times they… I’m from a automotive I’m from the automotive supply chain. I never once when I was in that business cared about the cost of l- logistics. I worked in engineering and we’re launching. I don’t care what it costs to ship stuff across the ocean. Cost an extra [00:52:30] 10,000, 50,000, I don’t care. We’re launching. So the idea that they won’t pay for it, they’ll pay for what’s right. Next is paper logs. Nobody likes paper logs. You could get an audit on s- C-T PAT, or maybe a customer audit, or maybe a tech audit. Your tech team. Am I trying, be trying to get SOC 2 compliant? You don’t wanna show your paper logs and go, “Hey, Jillian’s got really good handwriting here, and she’s really good with the camera.” Not good [00:53:00] enough. Also, if you’re a driver, drivers don’t want their pictures of their license everywhere. They pick up and deliver a lot of different places. It’s not fair to them that their identity is basically being thrown around in a sloppy way. It should be in a technology that ensures their privacy. And last but not least, we talked about there are blacklisted drivers. Putting a picture of the, as you called them, be on [00:53:30] the lookout for, the BOLO list. There we go. I got these 10 guys, and every time they sh- any time somebody shows up, I look carefully. Yes. “So Tom, did you look carefully before you gave it to Thief?”

“Yes, I looked at all the BOLOs, and that wasn’t it.” “Oh, he grew a beard.” “Yep. I’m out. For that reason, I’m out. I can’t help it.” For all those reasons, you need a technology that makes sense, and we have that with IDScan.net. Enough of my [00:54:00] blather. Put a big old bow on this one. Final thoughts on the topic, Jillian?

Jillian Kossman: Yeah. The use of fake IDs in logistics is booming. It’s booming due to the economy. It’s booming due to organized crime seeing this as a soft target because there’s still a lot of businesses that are not up to speed technically. And it’s booming due to the revocation of many non-DOM CDLs, and those drivers having to go get fake IDs to continue earning an income.

So our technology is [00:54:30] designed to detect and flag fake and suspicious IDs, ensure that cargo is safe and just secure the supply chain at the most basic individual level, which is by securing the driver. So we’ve got several products. VeriScan’s our in-person product. DIV is our digital remote identity verification product, and they are used by hundreds of shippers, manufacturers, freight brokers, 3PL companies to ensure they know who their drivers are.

[00:55:00] It’s our fastest growing industry. We love working with these guys. We hear every day that we’ve detected a fake ID and stopped cargo theft for our customers, and we expect that only to continue because criminals are not slowing down in this space.

Joe Lynch: No, they are. And by the way, you guys work in a lot of other industries. Give us a sense for that just so we can get a sense for the scope

Jillian Kossman: Sure. So any industry where you might encounter a fake ID we are in. Our other biggest industry right now is financial securing banks and credit [00:55:30] unions to stop, check fraud, loan fraud fraudulent account opening both online and in person. We also work in age verification to stop the use of fake IDs to get access to alcohol, cannabis, et cetera.

Rentals, you’re renting a car, you’re renting heavy equipment that stuff is subject to many of the same organized crime rings that steal cargo.

Joe Lynch: wow. I didn’t think about that

Jillian Kossman: So we’re in those spaces as well. Anywhere where someone might use a fake ID to do something illegal, we have tech in place to stop [00:56:00] that

Joe Lynch: Yep. So te- by the way, tell your kids who are underage that this is going on. So if somebody’s listening, they say, “Yeah, Julian we want this,” what does this look like? Let’s just say I’m a freight broker and I wanna do this. How long does it take to implement this?

Jillian Kossman: It’s very quick. We offer a free 30-day trial. So you can contact us and we’ll get set up. You’ll work with our team to configure it to match your organization’s privacy standards, the workflow that you want and it can be set up in, [00:56:30] in a matter of days or weeks. So it’s very easy to use once it’s implemented properly.

Joe Lynch: I love it. I love it. Jolene, I’ll make sure I put a link to your LinkedIn profile, a link to your website, any other links you and your go-to-market team give me, I’ll put those in the show notes, and so people can reach out and talk to you. What conferences will we see you and the fine folks from IDScan.net at?

Jillian Kossman: We will be at all of them. So I will be at the Western States Cargo Theft Association in a couple of weeks. I will also be at the Port of Long Beach trade show [00:57:00] later in August or, one-day conference. We will be at TAPA T2. We will be at the Cargo Net summit. So we’re going heavy, and you’ll see us anywhere anyone’s discussing cargo theft or fictitious pickups, you will see IDScan at it

Joe Lynch: What is tap what’d you say, tapa?

What is Transported Asset Protection Association. Oh my God, there’s a new one every day. And I- but we need it. I’m not

Jillian Kossman: Yeah, they’re great. They do two trade shows a year. So this one is in December, and I can’t remember where it is this year, but we go to both of those shows [00:57:30] annually. So it’s a re- it’s a really good show. Lots of good information

Joe Lynch: love it. I love it. And I’m I’ve not talked to anyone on my pod- I’ve done, I think, 800 episodes. I don’t think I’ve talked to anyone doing what you guys are doing. But as soon as you guys reached out, I was like, “Oh yeah, this is absolutely, positively what we need.” Because this is a foundational piece of cybersecurity, cargo security, freight fraud.

If you can’t get the who’s picked it up right, don’t plan on [00:58:00] anything else working right.

Jillian Kossman: Yeah. And it’s easy. It’s easy to implement, easy to use, and again drivers are the foundation of this industry. We wanna make sure that we know who they are. And, I think with our solution, we can really get to the root of a lot of cargo theft

Joe Lynch: I love it. I love it. Again, I’ll make sure I put a link to your LinkedIn profile, a link to your website, and links to you and your Go-To-Market team Give Me. I’ll put those in the show notes. And Jillian, thank you so much for taking the time

Jillian Kossman: Thank you so much, Joe. This was a lot of fun

Joe Lynch: Yep. [00:58:30] And thank all of you for listening to my podcast. Your support’s very much appreciated. Until next time, onward and upward